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Poll

Should a radar/mini-map feature be added

No, it is fine as-is
No, and the transparent map should also be removed
Yes, this feature should be added
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Topic: Refined transparent map  (Read 24937 times)

Offline Zorro

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Refined transparent map
« on: April 08, 2007, 18:06:02 »
Doom already has mapping built into it, and odamex already has the transparent overlay map feature, however, both of the current automap representations are highly distracting.  What do you people think about replacing or adding to the transparent automap the functionality to draw inside a box somewhere off to the side instead of covering the entire screen?

Let's try to keep the poll's results based on our opinion of the idea, not of how hard it would be to implement or who is doing the work.

In addition, maybe this is something that the server should control.  It is very similar to the issue of freelook.  In vanilla doom, you go blind when you enable your map.
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Offline cSc

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2007, 18:14:16 »
Should have a toggleable ctf mini-map showing items and such...that would be a nice feature :)
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Offline Zorro

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2007, 18:39:06 »
I avoided saying that because that would require additional player positions to be sent to each client, making wallhacks more likely to be implemented...  Actually, if all of these things are being rendered in the map, a wallhack wouldn't help much more.  (the overlay map is an invaluable resource when trolling zdaemon coop because it allows you to be repared when camping a corner).

The *only* information that should be sent is teammate locations and *maybe* the enemy flag's location.  The enemy flag's location can be determined by the location of the player carrying it.  The friend team's flag should not be visible in the map unless it is home.

Also, the idea of granting the player the entire map of a level comes up.  We all play these maps repeatedly and religiously, so it makes little sense for the automap to be empty at the start of a game.  The *option* for the map to be fully complete (barring lines and sectors marked as secret) may not be a bad idea.
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Offline Voxel

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2007, 22:57:13 »
Teammate position info is already sent for F12, so that shouldn't be a problem.
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Offline Zorro

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2007, 06:44:43 »
That should make the people who are paranoid about security happy :)
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Offline Dan

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2007, 10:37:26 »
Feature sounds really nice, and it would, more and more make this port stand out from the rest. I dont use automap, so it really dosnt matter to me.

Doom with l337 Battlefield 2 Radar. Lawl
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Offline cSc

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2007, 20:38:19 »
Quote from: Dan on April 09, 2007, 10:37:26
Feature sounds really nice, and it would, more and more make this port stand out from the rest. I dont use automap, so it really dosnt matter to me.

Doom with l337 Battlefield 2 Radar. Lawl

^-- Lol. Or halo's Radar xD
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Offline Slayer

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 09:13:52 »
A neat feature but would have to be made an option due to standard doom's defualt settings. It may not be very old school but wouldn't doom's mapping layout look fuckin' terrible crushed in a little 3x3 inch box, even with tracking support for players or items to keep it useful would be in vain because we all know the damn maps already. Doom has never been played with radar and the gameplay would change very little were this to be implemented.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 10:28:00 »
Perhaps, do not draw the entire map in the box, have it zoomed in on the current player, and have the zoom ethier controled by the size of the current sector or map. Or have the zoom embedded for keyboard shortcuts. Rotate should also be a nice feature for the player/engine to control if your really serious of making automap look like a doom type radar.

Like slayer said, please dont go and change the automap feature with the advance "Radar" without some way of turning it on and off.
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Offline Zorro

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2007, 17:13:40 »
Quote from: Slayer on April 11, 2007, 09:13:52
A neat feature but would have to be made an option due to standard doom's defualt settings. It may not be very old school but wouldn't doom's mapping layout look fuckin' terrible crushed in a little 3x3 inch box, even with tracking support for players or items to keep it useful would be in vain because we all know the damn maps already. Doom has never been played with radar and the gameplay would change very little were this to be implemented.

Well first of all, this is an improvement on the map, not the gameplay, and second of all, an additional server-side switch was already in mind. :)

Quote from: Dan on April 11, 2007, 10:28:00
Perhaps, do not draw the entire map in the box, have it zoomed in on the current player, and have the zoom ethier controled by the size of the current sector or map. Or have the zoom embedded for keyboard shortcuts.

That is a given
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Offline Dan

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2007, 21:03:13 »
Server-side switch is not a really good solution, your putting to much control toward the server then the actual player, if the person wants the radar-automap, let him choose to play with it. Imo, i say at the most put a trigger in the client to define which automap to show up, the oldschool or the radar-automap in the HUD or/and automap toggle.

By the way, if your going to Modify the automap, don't just stick it in the corner and draw a gif. patch overlaying it, be creative with it :D
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Offline cSc

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2007, 04:01:41 »
Quote from: Dan on April 11, 2007, 21:03:13
Server-side switch is not a really good solution, your putting to much control toward the server then the actual player, if the person wants the radar-automap, let him choose to play with it. Imo, i say at the most put a trigger in the client to define which automap to show up, the oldschool or the radar-automap in the HUD or/and automap toggle.

By the way, if your going to Modify the automap, don't just stick it in the corner and draw a gif. patch overlaying it, be creative with it :D


What if the server is 'designed' for classical CTF? Or OS Deathmatch servers? Must take those into consideration aswell.
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Offline killingblair

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2007, 15:11:54 »
Quote from: cSc on April 08, 2007, 18:14:16
Should have a toggleable ctf mini-map showing items and such...that would be a nice feature :)
You would instantly be able to know the enemy's position by the appearance of items disappearing with no team mates near them.

But if it's a radar that shows a small proximity of your location and any friendlies that are near, that would be a good thing, and it wouldn't greatly affect gameplay.
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Offline Zorro

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2007, 22:07:36 »
Quote from: cSc on April 14, 2007, 04:01:41
What if the server is 'designed' for classical CTF? Or OS Deathmatch servers? Must take those into consideration aswell.

ctf was never classical :P

Though I agree, there are people who are anal about having their oldshool games who dont want to be playing first timers who think they are special because they can exploit the map
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Offline Dan

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Re: Refined transparent map
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2007, 10:05:14 »
"Exploit the map"?

  If anything your just copying an effect of automap in a smaller box, more organized box, how is that giving a advantage? The feature is still usable even when "this feature" is cut off, sure it may not look good, but doesnt really effect gameplay much. Im all for oldschool stuff, but its game design 101, Player must be in control of much stuff as drawn possiable, it makes the player happy, and the game more interesting. No, im not suggesting any removel of what we already have server-side switched. But this feature really doesnt seem enough imo, to be added as a server-side switch. Please take those in to count when coding.

Good luck.
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