Message Boards

 Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Topics - Doomkid

Pages: [1] 2
1


Hey peoples, just wanted to announce a new cluster of servers for Odamex called Doomshack.org! These are made and maintained by myself & mrcrispy.

You'll find a variety of cooperative, duel and deathmatch servers here, with CTF coming soon as well. The server is located in California and provides a great bridge for international play - I live all the way over there in Australia and I connect really smoothly to them.

The website is currently undergoing updates, the plan is to have a real time server display and player counter for each port visible via the site. There's also a huge database of wadfiles to enjoy!

If you want to get in on it, visit the official Doomshack chat at irc.quakenet.org #dmstuff.

Happy fragging!
2

Maps, Wads and Mods / DUELPACK: 32 classic maps, with lobby!

« on: June 13, 2016, 08:13:24 »

DUELPACK: A cross-compatible duel compilation!


Hey there my fraggin' friends. For the sake of any vanilla DMers out there, I have compiled a pack of commonly played doom2 duel maps. Despite being 100% vanilla compatible, this pack comes with a lobby map (map00) that functions just like Duel40 and ZDDL4 in Zandronum, ZDaemon and Odamex. When running in vanilla, the skies will be the stock skies, but in ZDoom ports the correct skies will be displayed. Only cosmetic, everything works as intended in vanilla ports!

The maps featured are as follows:

MAP01 "entryway" by Sandy Petersen
MAP02 "ssl2" by Erkka Ryynänen
MAP03 "judas23_" by Strangenl
MAP04 "danzig1 map11" by B. Vannatta (d5m2)
MAP05 "dwango5 map01" by Rockt and Asmo
MAP06 "dwango6 map01" by Usurper
MAP07 "dwango5 map07" edit of "Dead Simple" by Sandy Petersen and American McGee
MAP08 "pobla8" by Denis Moeller
MAP09 "oblivx" by Bloodlust
MAP10 "brit10 map01" by Danny Lancashire
MAP11 "dweller2 map11" by Dweller in the Cellar
MAP12 "dwango12 map12" by Floss
MAP13 "dk_dm_13 map01" by Doomkid
MAP14 "fuloser" by Fuloser
MAP15 "king1" by by Jason Yasuko
MAP16 "greenwar map16" by Hellbent (Jason Root)
MAP17 "dwango20 map03" by The Prophet
MAP18 "kid_duel map01" by Doomkid
MAP19 "danzig2 map19" by B. Vannatta
MAP20 "greenwar map20" by Hellbent (Jason Root)
MAP21 "thehook.wad" by Spam
MAP22 "dmc2 map03" by Andrei Romanov
MAP23 "dwango6 map23" Bfw900 Map06 (Unknown Author)
MAP24 "moo2d" by Toke
MAP25 "bahdko1" by Bahdko
MAP26 "kid_duel map04" by Doomkid
MAP27 "dwango20 map32" by Traversd
MAP28 "dweller2 map02" by Dweller in the Cellar
MAP29 "swarmdmx map04" by Jason Yasuko
MAP30 "mancerx map14" by Mancer (C. Savage)
MAP31 "theden.wad" by Spam
MAP32 "bacardi1" by Lordunum (Samuel Lock)


Q: Why isn't MAPXX included in this wad? I love that map, why the hell didn't you include it?

A: I can't include everything under the sun, but anyone can compile wads assuming permission is given!





Enjoy!
3

Maps, Wads and Mods / DOOMED IN SPACE (A community Project!)

« on: February 16, 2016, 21:59:33 »
Hello there, and welcome to DOOMED IN SPACE!




This project is all about capturing the essence of science fiction. Maps will be very 'futuristic', featuring lots of clean, shiny, grand architecture. Computer terminals, transporter pads, large space stations etc is what I'm after. There have been a few Star Wars mods and Doom clones over the years that capture this element somewhat in their design, and I want to bring that vibe to the smooth, comfortable gameplay of Doom.

---

The Story:
The year is 2188. Cybernetic enhancement has been the UAC's main focus for over three decades, and they are finally making some breakthroughs. "The UAC is the future of humanity" soon became their slogan, and the populous loved it. Long forgotten are the days of demonic invasion and hellspawn - Those wounds have been bandaged for nearly a century. The UAC is a trusted force of humanity in the public eye, and thanks to their efforts, cybernetic humans seem to be the way of the future. Their latest press release boasted the benefits of their endeavors to very little scrutiny.

What isn't commonly discussed is how these breakthroughs have been made. Reports of young adults mysteriously disappearing from some of the smaller, more primitive colonies seem to be happening more and more frequently. No one would suspect the UAC - the future of humanity - could possibly be responsible for these heinous crimes.

My name is Genus. None of my family know why I'm here. They have no idea why I've been missing for 6 months now. I have undergone things that 'torture' simply fails to describe. Experiments, testing.. I'm a shell of my former self. My body is mostly robotic at this point, my ability to feel the warmth of a human touch, completely gone. However, there are benefits.. I now posses superhuman strength and speed. Rage flows through me. It looks like the guards have left the security terminal unwatched for a brief moment.. Now is my chance for revenge. Now is my change to escape.


(I hope you love that B-Movie cheese as much as I do!)

---

New enemies:
The enemies are edited slightly from their Doom counterparts, but not so much so that it breaks the intended flow. Space troopers, sergeants and chaingunners are a little less sluggish in their movement as they aren't zombies in this mod, but they otherwise attack in the same way as usual. WolfSS enemies are now used as patrol officers. The graphics have been modified from Doom64, Wolf3D and Star Wars Dark Forces.

Imps have been replaced by space marines. Their plasma attack is like a slightly weaker and less rapid Arachnotron attack, so be careful around them.

Demons are now Plasma Heavy Marines. The "Imps" not tough enough? Put some of these bad boys around in your map. Their shots are quite deceptive, taking you off guard.

Barons and Hell Knights have been replaced by flamethrower marines. Normal troopers have a health of 60 or 70, but the flamethrower marine has 120 and flamethrower elite has 200. (Very weak compared to real Knights and Barons!) These guys are destructive up close, but with some distance they don't stand a chance.

Cacodemons are now replaced by Brain Orbs, originally found in Area51.wad. I've modified their behavior so that they fire rapidly rather than just releasing one fireball, making them quite a bit more threatening. I also made some suitable sound effects for them.

Cyberdemons, Spider Masterminds, Revenants, Arch-Viles, Mancubi, Arachnotrons, Pain Elementals and Lost Souls remain unchanged. I welcome people to submit sprites for us to replace them with, but let's keep their behavior in-tact - We all know how to map around their current functionality.

New weapons:
Weapon behavior has also been slightly modified to suit the new theme. The pistol is taken from Star Wars, and is much more useful than the vanilla Doom counterpart.

The Shotgun is now the Blaster, sprites originally from equinox.wad. It is significantly faster than the normal shotgun!

The Chaingun is replaced be a machine gun, once again from Dark Forces, and once again has a higher DPS than the vanilla version.

There's no longer a chainsaw, instead we have the far more useful Railgun! It is the plasma equivalent of a sniper rifle, a very powerful weapon indeed. Sprite is from skulltag.wad.

I intend on replacing the SSG, however I'm not sure what with yet. There are more enemy and weapon changes pending, but this is what I have so far.

---

Screenshots and resource pack download:

What, you thought I came here empty handed? Hell no! Click here to download the demonstration level and resource pack built to show you the sort of themes and architecture I'm looking for here - That slick space station vibe with all them glowy lights and computers and whatnot. It will also give you an idea of how the weapons and enemies function.









A few ground rules:
Due to the use of railguns and other extended bex features, this will aim to run in (G)Zdoom, Zandronum, Zdaemon and Odamex. To ensure consistent gameplay in SP, online, and across all ports, please use Boom format mapping. Not only will it ensure compatibility but it well retain that oldschool 90's Doom-clone vibe, which I feel is a crucial element of this project! Please DO NOT make jumping mandatory in your map, and make sure player can't jump across pits or bridges or whatever to skip parts of your map!

You can use a maximum of 5 custom textures and 5 custom flats in your map. I want to keep the filesize low on this one and I want to keep the theme fairly consistent. If you can think of graphics you think would be worth submitting for textures, enemies or otherwise, feel free to, however that doesn't guarantee they'll be accepted. I'm looking to come to a solid episode.

Mapslots are listed below:

Map01- Escape! by Doomkid
Map02- DoomLover234
Map03- Space Waste by Crunchynut44
Map04- AnonimVio
Map05- Angry Saint
Map06- Over and Out by joe-ilya
MAp07- obake
Map08- uggi121
Map09- AD_79
Map10- MrEnchanter
Map11- LanHikariDS
Map12- Nevander
Map13-
Map14- DRL 3.33
Map15-
Map16- Doomkid

---

If people really are busting to make maps for this, the list could potentially be expanded.

I hope you like what you see. Looking forward to submissions from you all! :)
4

Maps, Wads and Mods / DWANGO: 21st Anniversary!

« on: December 31, 2015, 04:49:08 »


Dwango21 is finally ready! Download it here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/j5vigqm0ba0a67b/dwango21.zip

Mirror: http://www.grandpachuck.org/files/wads/dwango21.zip

Happy 21st Anniversary! DWANGO is now officially old enough to buy booze. Due to the popularity of the Dwango 20th anniversary mappack (DWANGO20.wad), I decided to start up a project with a similar but slightly different vision. Last year, we gave the DM mappers of the 90's the spotlight and focused on a true OS-style, however this year we've switched to focusing on the current community. This is a blend of the old and the new - It breathes fresh blood into map themes and layouts heavily inspired by our old favorites (and is definitely not to be taken too seriously!)

After we all worked our butts off, we ended up with 25 maps:


Quote
01- Dwango 21st Anniversary - Doomkid
02- Deimos Deathmatch - NoneeLlama & the_miano
03- Death Trap - Deathtrap
04- Splattercourt - Captain Toenail
05- Cat and Mouse - Deathtrap
06- Lockdown - Captain Toenail
07- Base E2 - NoneeLlama
08- Threshold - Cpt. Toenail & Joe-Ilya
09- Killing Spree - Captain Toenail
10- The Devil's Playground - Inkie
11- Circle of Death! - Doomkid
12- Hydromatch - BloodyAcid
13- Bold and Brash - Doomkid
14- Day 2 Die - Captain Toenail
15- Raging Elements - Fred512
16- E1M1 DM - Doomkid
17- Phobos Dungeon - Doomkid
18- The 6th Gate - Ronald
19- Spilling Blood - Deathtrap
20- The Unholy Cathedral - Chris Hansen
21- Canyon Installation - Joe Pallai
22- Wooddeath - Cacowad
23- Dieangle - Peter Kasting
24- Another Bloody Circle - Doomkid
25- Slasher - Doomkid

Screenshots:









I hope you all enjoy Dwango21! It was a lot of fun getting people together to craft these maps, and I think they make a fine addition to the family.

Happy fragging!
5

Maps, Wads and Mods / POINT of CONTENTION - Single Duel Map

« on: August 10, 2015, 02:14:00 »
POINT of CONTENTION - A duel map by Doomkid

DOWNLOAD: http://www.grandpachuck.org/files/wads/pointoc.wad

The story so far...

Quote
You and your fellow crewmen were ambushed. The other starship came out of nowhere and fired upon your vessel, killing your entire crew. The other two decks have been damaged and are decompressed - Only the main bridge remains. I grabbed my shotgun and laid his crew to waste as they transported aboard - But their captain is something else.. I've got to kill this guy before he gets his hands on our newest creation, the BFG9000. Better grab my combat armor.


Hello all my dooming friends,

I'm here to release a map I've created recently, Point of Contention. There are five spawns - Two start with the chaingun and three with the shogun. There is a central SSG that is equidistant from each spawn. There is also a plasma gun, blue armor and soulsphere present. This makes for a frantic 1v1 map which can be played in two different ways:

Option#1 (Recommended) - Play with NOS flags: Items Respawn, Freelook on, No Jump. With NOS flags, this map will be all about moving through this tight little spaceship as fast as you can. Continue to grab the soulsphere and blue armor, then nab the BFG and re-juice it with fresh ammo from the provided plasma gun.

Option#2 - Play with pure OS flags: Freelook, Jumping, and Item respawn all OFF. This creates a map where you will absolutely need that SSG, and it will become a king of the hill scenario around the BFG lift. Whoever is best at defending it will come out on top, but they will have to grab that plasma gun to reill their ammo at some point, so keep a sharp eye on your enemy!

Screenshots? Of course:




This map is very unforgiving to new players - It's designed to reward knowledge of your guns, constant movement and reading your opponent. I don't think I'll make another map quite in this style again. Oh, and of course, this runs in Zdaemon, Zandronum and Odamex. I had a lot of fun making it and hope you have a lot of fun playing it.  :D

Happy fragging!
6

Maps, Wads and Mods / The Sinister Seven!

« on: July 02, 2015, 02:11:33 »
Hello Doomers :)

Today I present to you 7 sp/coop/survival maps, the "Sinister Seven".



DOWNLOAD HERE: http://www.mediafire.com/download/la34pt5773x9qqp/SinSeven.zip

A few of these maps are retooled submissions to community projects and some are brand new turf. These are mostly vanilla compatible, although map07 has a few VPOs - Curse that low limit! Needless to say, this runs in ALL source ports, so no players are excluded.

This time around there is a story, which continues from the end of UAC Rebellion:
Quote
The UAC recovered from the destruction left in the rebel's wake. He had taken out most of the sinister minds in charge with brute force and even managed to close the gate to hell they had opened. Most of the survivors thought he was crazy, but some said he was a twisted hero who saw the bigger picture. The fact is, his attempt to stop the UAC failed - He was killed shortly after his return to Earth by a group of hostiles who had survived his rampage.

They immediately began rebuilding the destroyed facilities. They rewrote history, erasing the evidence that the UAC had ever experimented on humans, painted the rebel as nothing more than a "cold hearted lunatic", gained support and funding from Earth's remaining population and used it to continue their interdimensional research.

I knew the rebel personally. I was with the group of supporters who he let go. I knew the UAC were corrupt bastards as soon as people started going missing. I heard they killed the rebel and were rebuilding, so I prepared myself. Today, it happened - The sky turned a bright red. Two massive portals opened above us. The demonic aliens swept through our base and took out or possessed almost everyone.. Those evil UAC bastards had done it again, only worse. Their plan to brainwash the masses worked, and now destruction incarnate is pouring in from the sky.

I can't explain why they want to see the world burn - but here I am, presumably the only survivor in a military base full of hellspawn. It's time to put my training to the test. I know of a spot where I can escape to sea and ride this invasion out on the water. I wonder if anyone else has survived..

Now let's see some screenshots!







I hope you all have fun with these. Difficulty levels are very thoroughly implemented, so if you're finding it too hard, just turn it down a notch! These should also be perfect for survival mode - I hope it gets implemented soon!!!

All feedback is welcomed with open arms :)

DOWNLOAD HERE: http://www.mediafire.com/download/la34pt5773x9qqp/SinSeven.zip
7

Maps, Wads and Mods / Doomkid's Duelzones!

« on: February 24, 2015, 06:22:03 »
Hello once again my beautiful little Doomies out there, and welcome to Doomkid's Duelzones.

DOWNLOAD: http://www.mediafire.com/download/056hwcv6c2fym8w/KID_DUEL.zip

Here we have 7 duel maps which I've worked very hard on perfecting. I know it's a bit less than my previous releases, but the lesson here is quality over quantity!

Screenshots below:






The texturing is cleaner than my old stuff, but more importantly, the item and weapon placement is far superior. These are designed to be true skilltesters - You'll have to know exactly what weapon to use and when to defeat your foes, and use of enviromental cover is crucial to victory. Simply put, I went in with a "designed for tournament use" mentality.

A big thankyou to MrCrispy, Decay, Ru5tK1ng, The_Miano and a few other beauties out there for your critiques and advice while constucting this set. It's because of your input that these turned out nicely, rather than just another "king of the items" DK_DM mapset.

As always, I appreciate ANY feedback - even if you want to berate me, something is always better than nothing!

ENJOY :)
8

Maps, Wads and Mods / WIP Duel Maps!

« on: February 24, 2015, 06:19:52 »
Hey friends, I've been (lazily) working on some new duel maps. They aren't done yet, but Decay, MrCrispy, and a few other beauties have been very helpful by testing them with me and offering criticism and advice.

I'd like some feedback, things you like, dislike, etc so I can refine them. They're fully vanilla compatible. Suggested flags: no jump, item respawn.

The biggest point, item and weapon placement is much better than in my previous works.

Here are some screenshots:





And here's the download:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/kluc0jhx1ck4112/kidduell.wad

Looking forward to hearing your opinions, they'll help me make a better wad!
9

Technical Support / Pressing switches with your ass on respawn?

« on: November 25, 2014, 19:04:15 »
So, there's this bug wherein if you click multiple times to respawn, you can press switches with your butt as soon as you spawn. In Deathmatch, if a start is placed in front of an exit - even with your butt facing it - can cause some real BS deaths. (My apologies if this has already been reported.)

Here's a demo, requires tdevil2.wad - http://www.mediafire.com/download/o5inuj5v7cjlc79/ass_switch_glitch.odd

At about 2 minutes in, you can see I spawn facing away from a blue door, yet it says 'you need a blue key to open this door', showcasing the "pressing stuff with your ass" glitch as I like to call it.

Hope to see this one cleared up!
10

Technical Support / (Bug reported)

« on: November 03, 2014, 21:56:20 »
(Please ignore, bug reported in #odamex-dev)
11

Maps, Wads and Mods / Doomkid's DM 4!

« on: October 20, 2014, 07:37:54 »
CLICK TO DOWNLOAD!





12 quick n' dirty speedmaps!


Hello again DM lovers. :) Here I have 12 maps I whipped up fairly quickly that are sure to please. Serious matches can be had with 2-4 players, but it goes insane with 8+! I have made the BFG optional, because I know a lot of people don't like it (see: whining). Select Skill 1/2 for Soulsphere, 3 for Invisibility sphere, and 4/5 for the BFG - It's the best option, of course!

I took a different approach with map08 and map12, they both use a more narutal layout. You'll know what I mean when you play them! (Sadly they cause VPOs in vanilla.) There's a secret with the Coke machine in the mall, map07. Originally there was only a Pepsi machine, but Ralphis reminded me that Pepsi sucks - it really does - so I added a Coke machine and moved the secret to it instead!

Enough of this talk - Let's see some screens:








I hope you all enjoy the frags. I welcome any feedback/criticism!

(Why not leave your thoughts on my page? I'd love to see that guestbook filled up with some WAD feedback!)
12

Maps, Wads and Mods / DWANGO 20th Anniversary!

« on: September 29, 2014, 00:32:01 »



Hello my Odamex friends,

DWANGO's 20th anniversary is approaching. If you're like me and you just can't get enough deathmatch, remember: This is where it all started! The humble beginnings of an online fanbase that just won't die.

When Bob Huntley and Kee Kimbrell pitched the DWANGO idea to id Software, John Carmack and the others were largely uninterested, but the duo found support in John Romero, the godfather of deathmatching! No surprise there right?

This was a time before the internet had really caught on. Doomers had to dial long distance to Houston, TX - Despite this, DWANGO was wildly popular, and the creators reaped a well deserved profit from the subscription fees. By early 1995, over nine thousand subscribers were paying $8.95 a month, some calling from as far as Italy and Australia! It warms my heart to know Aussies have been fragging since the olden days.

The official anniversary date is December 11th, 2014 - I'm early, but hell, why not get our celebratory frags in now!

Screenshots Below:





The main difference between this and the classic DWANGO wads is that every author is actually going to recieve credit - A change of pace, I know!

Code: [Select]
Denis Moeller- Map02 (Point Blank 4)

The Prophet- Map03, Map10, Map15, Map21 (PROPHET Series)

Patrick Hook- Map04, Map05, Map25 (HOOKED.wad)

Timer- Map06 (RAT in a CAGE), Map18 (The Pillars)

Emilio Galasso- Map07 (DAMNATION ALLEY II)

The Giggler- Map08 (Giggler3), Map12 (Thrill Me), Map17 (Giggler5)

Michael Daniels- Map09, Map24, Map28 (PudWhacker!)

Tony Hafner- Map11 (Spotlite), Map26 (Ankle Bite)

Alissa Colby- Map13 (GSXR_13)

Cory Malain- Map14 (QUAD KILL)

Shaft- Map16 (Brutal Deathmatch)

Chris Donges- Map19 (Harmony)

Dan Silver- Map20 (Clover Leaf)

PiGMaN- Map22 (WTF-PIGMAN01)

Brent Marvich & Ted Peterson- Map23 (MerDoom II)

Blue- Map27 (The Iron Cross)

Virgil Itliong- Map29 (Church Of Doom II)

Warren Marshall- Map30 (Death By Cyberdemon)

Thrasher & Whiplash- Map31 (Football Stadium)

TraversD- Map32 (Afterlife)

Additional credit to AwesomePanda and other anonymous
contributors for MIDI files. The sky textures are from
Heretic, Sabbat Martyr Deathmatch, and edited Alpha Doom
resources. Map01 was originally created by myself for
dk_dm_2, but this version is improved.


Considering the age of these maps (all created between 1994 and 1998) I am highly impressed by their design and appearance. I think they make a wonderful addition to the DWANGO family.

Enough of this talking, Let's frag!

Download DWANGO20 here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/gdymu7g6htfyg23/Dwango20.zip


Happy 20th anniversary!

13

Maps, Wads and Mods / Z-Match 3rd Strike (RELEASE!)

« on: September 08, 2014, 04:20:20 »
Z-Match: 3RD STRIKE is finally here!



http://www.mediafire.com/download/a6gquswu8s6osc8/zdm_3.zip

Z-Match: 3rd Strike is a collection of 14 maps with a hellish, almost medieval theme. Inspiration is taken from several great WADs, but this pack has a unique identity that it brings to the table. Gameplay and detail were top priority while designing these - You will not get bored playing them!

For those who dislike the BFG, I have made it optional. Skill 4/5 retains the BFG, skill 1/2 replaces it with a soulsphere, and skill 3 replaces it with a plasma rifle.

Screenshots ahead!









We hope you will find lots of pleasure fragging your friends here. Each map will require the player to think differently than the last, especially in a duel setting. Personally, I reccommend 4-6 players - The gameplay is fast paced, but remains uncluttered. Record some demos and let us know what you think! :)

Maps designed by:

Doomkid
The_Miano
Captain Toenail
Mr.Crispy
Springy
DoomRenegade
Joe Pallai
Matt Guerrero

Special thanks to TheAwesomePanda for some MIDI files, Jon Rimmer for textures, VisualVincent for DoomWriter, Adelusion for his amazing maps, and everyone who helped playtest. You guys kick butt.

(/idgames mirror coming soon, hopefully!)
14

Maps, Wads and Mods / DK_DM_3

« on: June 14, 2014, 22:47:39 »
Hello Odamex DM lovers!

I've slaved over Doom Builder yet again and constructed 12 more deathmatch maps. I went in with the goal of creating some really powerful, replayable layouts. The better you know the turf, the better you'll do in game!

There are also 20 of my older maps included, with various bugfixes:texturing glitches, VPOs, areas the player could get stuck, etc. have all been eradicated. Other layout improvements are present as well.

I hope you enjoy them! Feedback is always appreciated!

Thanks to Mr. Crispy, Doomguy93, Sparklebunny, and everyone else at Odamex, Zdaemon and Zandronum who playtested. Also a big shoutout to people who found the major camping spots/other MASSIVE troll areas in the oldie maps. Because of you, the maps are now improved!

A game breaking bug has been fixed - Download the new version here! http://www.mediafire.com/download/e4cht4r5c1p6zs0/dk_dm_3f.zip

The filename is now DK_DM_3F.wad. There was a broken deathmatch start on map22, but the issue is resolved.

Screens:
http://i.imgur.com/wGHf46G.png
http://i.imgur.com/dfo4ffq.png
http://i.imgur.com/sEzo2r4.png
15

Maps, Wads and Mods / New Guns for DM!

« on: May 01, 2014, 04:53:48 »
Hello again my friends. Today, I'm releaseing something small but fun, called "Doomkid's Deathmatch Guns". Sadly, it isn't a new pack of levels, but rather a gun modifier pack.

The aim here was to make something less exaggerated than the common gun mods seen online, many of which don't even take Odamex compatability into account - These are supposed to feel like 'official' Doom guns, with a little extra kick, perfect for a fair but fresh Deathmatch.

DOWNLOAD: http://www.mediafire.com/download/7r3j7i60eeodap0/dm_guns.zip

SCREENS: (Basically, they're modified alpha sprites, the only ones that I thought looked good enough)




The skins and sound addons don't seem to work in Oda, but they're just little addons anyway.

Enjoy!
Pages: [1] 2